whooleytoo
Sep 21, 02:47 PM
I think there's (at least!) two separate debates going on here -
- what is the best home entertainment network design/topology?
- how well does the iTV serve the topology Apple has chosen?
The first question is a doozy. Personally, I think Apple's choice is a bit unwieldy. Have your entertainment network rely on your Mac/PC is fine; except when you need to restart after installing software (could the hard disk in the iTV buffer enough content to keep going until the Mac restarts? Possibly). Another problem is if your home PC is a laptop, which might not be in the home, or will sleep if inadvertently shut.
Also, it is a bit tedious if you have to get up from your sofa to your Mac, start downloading the film/show, then return to the couch and wait for the film/show to start playing. Wouldn't it be far better if you could purchase the film via the iTV, without having to go to your Mac/PC? (If this is possible, feel free to ignore this paragraph. ;) )
Personally, I'd prefer to have a home entertainment storage server, essentially something akin to the iTV but with a large hard disk (or RAID) attached, which stores all my iTunes and other media. Anything I buy on my MacBook - songs, TV shows, movies - are backed up to the server when I plug it into my home network (could the Leopard backup APIs achieve this?) and thus always available regardless of where my Mac is. And, I'd watch far more moves if they were just a menu click away, rather than rooting around the house for a DVD case.
As for the second question, if you accept Apple's argument that the Mac/PC will be the entertainment centre for the home, the iTV is probably the simplest device you could come up with. It's basically an Airport Express with "AirFlicks".
One thing puzzles me though - the iTV is not a complicated piece of kit, hardly any more so than the mini or any other Mac. So, why did Apple pre-announce earlier this month for release early next year, and not release a finished product?
Did they think of it too late to finish it in time for the iTunes Movie store announcement? Unlikely - people have been calling for video streaming for some time; and Apple would have been working behind the scenes on the iTunes movie store for some months. The fact that they appear to have finalised the configuration, aesthetics and price would indicate it's more or less done. More likely - iTV is waiting on some other key piece of technology before it can be released. And the obvious answer would be - Leopard.
iTV isn't being released until the Leopard timeframe, and Leopard has major unannounced features which we won't hear about until Macworld '07. Could it be some Mac media centre functionality as some have suggested?
p.s. as for a name, how about the "Apple Jack"? Rhymes with Apple Mac, and implies "jacking" all your content into your TV? Whaddya think?
Eeek! sorry. This post was far longer than I expected!
- what is the best home entertainment network design/topology?
- how well does the iTV serve the topology Apple has chosen?
The first question is a doozy. Personally, I think Apple's choice is a bit unwieldy. Have your entertainment network rely on your Mac/PC is fine; except when you need to restart after installing software (could the hard disk in the iTV buffer enough content to keep going until the Mac restarts? Possibly). Another problem is if your home PC is a laptop, which might not be in the home, or will sleep if inadvertently shut.
Also, it is a bit tedious if you have to get up from your sofa to your Mac, start downloading the film/show, then return to the couch and wait for the film/show to start playing. Wouldn't it be far better if you could purchase the film via the iTV, without having to go to your Mac/PC? (If this is possible, feel free to ignore this paragraph. ;) )
Personally, I'd prefer to have a home entertainment storage server, essentially something akin to the iTV but with a large hard disk (or RAID) attached, which stores all my iTunes and other media. Anything I buy on my MacBook - songs, TV shows, movies - are backed up to the server when I plug it into my home network (could the Leopard backup APIs achieve this?) and thus always available regardless of where my Mac is. And, I'd watch far more moves if they were just a menu click away, rather than rooting around the house for a DVD case.
As for the second question, if you accept Apple's argument that the Mac/PC will be the entertainment centre for the home, the iTV is probably the simplest device you could come up with. It's basically an Airport Express with "AirFlicks".
One thing puzzles me though - the iTV is not a complicated piece of kit, hardly any more so than the mini or any other Mac. So, why did Apple pre-announce earlier this month for release early next year, and not release a finished product?
Did they think of it too late to finish it in time for the iTunes Movie store announcement? Unlikely - people have been calling for video streaming for some time; and Apple would have been working behind the scenes on the iTunes movie store for some months. The fact that they appear to have finalised the configuration, aesthetics and price would indicate it's more or less done. More likely - iTV is waiting on some other key piece of technology before it can be released. And the obvious answer would be - Leopard.
iTV isn't being released until the Leopard timeframe, and Leopard has major unannounced features which we won't hear about until Macworld '07. Could it be some Mac media centre functionality as some have suggested?
p.s. as for a name, how about the "Apple Jack"? Rhymes with Apple Mac, and implies "jacking" all your content into your TV? Whaddya think?
Eeek! sorry. This post was far longer than I expected!
Grimace
Jul 11, 10:01 PM
My credit card is ready! I would love a machine to make Aperture a little more zippy.
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ddtlm
Oct 10, 01:10 PM
alex_ant:
Great to see you fighting the good fight!
others:
As true as it is that the G4 is slower than most of its compeditiors, when it is performing as bad as the numbers that some people have posted here then I can just about assure you that the Mac is at a severe software disadvantage. I mean really, look at the specs of a G4, the worst case performance delta between it and a top-of-the-line PC should be maybe 4x or 5x, not these 10x and higher numbers. There are very few situations when a G4 should do less work per clock than a P4.
So lets try to remain realistic here. It is virtually gaurenteed that the actual performance potential of a 1.25ghz G4 falls between that of a 1.3ghz P4 and the 2.8ghz P4.
EDIT:
Almost forgot to talk about SPEC. Some time ago, the only SPEC results that I know of for Macs were obtained by c't:
http://www.heise.de/ct/english/02/05/182/
In these they showed the G4 was more or less the same speed as a P3 of equal clock (1.0ghz) in the integer tests, when both where done done with GCC. Intel's compiler can give the P3 at 30% edge or something, so we know that the quality of compiler is hurting the G4 here. It is not fair to look at SPEC and declare other chips to be a zillion times faster than the G4, simply because they are all using very good compilers whereas Apple is stuck with GCC. Apple is working to improve GCC however, so things may get better.
(In SPEC FP the G4 get beat worse, I might add. Compilers played a role for sure, but can't explain the whole loss.)
Great to see you fighting the good fight!
others:
As true as it is that the G4 is slower than most of its compeditiors, when it is performing as bad as the numbers that some people have posted here then I can just about assure you that the Mac is at a severe software disadvantage. I mean really, look at the specs of a G4, the worst case performance delta between it and a top-of-the-line PC should be maybe 4x or 5x, not these 10x and higher numbers. There are very few situations when a G4 should do less work per clock than a P4.
So lets try to remain realistic here. It is virtually gaurenteed that the actual performance potential of a 1.25ghz G4 falls between that of a 1.3ghz P4 and the 2.8ghz P4.
EDIT:
Almost forgot to talk about SPEC. Some time ago, the only SPEC results that I know of for Macs were obtained by c't:
http://www.heise.de/ct/english/02/05/182/
In these they showed the G4 was more or less the same speed as a P3 of equal clock (1.0ghz) in the integer tests, when both where done done with GCC. Intel's compiler can give the P3 at 30% edge or something, so we know that the quality of compiler is hurting the G4 here. It is not fair to look at SPEC and declare other chips to be a zillion times faster than the G4, simply because they are all using very good compilers whereas Apple is stuck with GCC. Apple is working to improve GCC however, so things may get better.
(In SPEC FP the G4 get beat worse, I might add. Compilers played a role for sure, but can't explain the whole loss.)
cublah
Mar 18, 09:26 AM
I use HandyLight to tether, but only occasionally. I wonder if they can detect that. I don't know what method the jailbreak way uses.
They can detect in a lot of way, for instance since you can't use flash on an iphone or iPad, if they see lots of flash stuff they you are probably tethering, also certain popular sites detect mobile devices and send the mobile version of the site if you are loading the full versions of those sites they could detect tethering, these are only a couple of simple things but there are plenty more, so I don't think this is going to be limited to the latest iOS.
Just my thought on the matter.
They can detect in a lot of way, for instance since you can't use flash on an iphone or iPad, if they see lots of flash stuff they you are probably tethering, also certain popular sites detect mobile devices and send the mobile version of the site if you are loading the full versions of those sites they could detect tethering, these are only a couple of simple things but there are plenty more, so I don't think this is going to be limited to the latest iOS.
Just my thought on the matter.
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ChrisA
Jul 12, 12:19 PM
Just as a data point for you all: I'm typing this on a dual processor Xeon runing at 3.6 Ghz.
Each procesor has 1M cache. The system has 4GB RAM and some 10K RPM Ultra-SCSI disks. It runs Linux. This system runs circles around any current Intel Mac. I'm not putting Mac down. Not at all. I just wanted to let you all know to expect a huge performane jump when these new dual and quad core woodcrest machines come out.
You want my guess about what's comming. Apple will offer a high-end dual Woodcrest, quad core "mac pro" and it will be expensive. But they will also offer a lower-end dual processor (Conroe) tower. in a mini-tower configuration. Call it a "Mac Pro Lite" for arounr $2K
Each procesor has 1M cache. The system has 4GB RAM and some 10K RPM Ultra-SCSI disks. It runs Linux. This system runs circles around any current Intel Mac. I'm not putting Mac down. Not at all. I just wanted to let you all know to expect a huge performane jump when these new dual and quad core woodcrest machines come out.
You want my guess about what's comming. Apple will offer a high-end dual Woodcrest, quad core "mac pro" and it will be expensive. But they will also offer a lower-end dual processor (Conroe) tower. in a mini-tower configuration. Call it a "Mac Pro Lite" for arounr $2K
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NathanMuir
Apr 24, 12:15 PM
And an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope...
Sorry, couldn't help myself.
What about fear of hell in the afterlife? Pretty powerful motivator that.
That all depends upon what branch of religion you follow/ believe in.
Your little Pope quip illustrates that you're unaware of just how narrow you made this thread.
You're sadly mistaken if you think that the Pope presides over all religious activity. There are a great many religious belief systems besides the Catholic Church.
Fear of death. That's why religion was invented and why it will always exist.
It must be very simple and claustrophobic up there. ;)
Who would I be to argue with such an excellent generalization?
Sorry, couldn't help myself.
What about fear of hell in the afterlife? Pretty powerful motivator that.
That all depends upon what branch of religion you follow/ believe in.
Your little Pope quip illustrates that you're unaware of just how narrow you made this thread.
You're sadly mistaken if you think that the Pope presides over all religious activity. There are a great many religious belief systems besides the Catholic Church.
Fear of death. That's why religion was invented and why it will always exist.
It must be very simple and claustrophobic up there. ;)
Who would I be to argue with such an excellent generalization?
leekohler
Mar 25, 11:56 AM
I hardly think he is being attacked. He entered this thread willingly and joined the discussion. Of course, we are all entitled to our own opinions. Unfortunately, his opinions and those of the people like him are directly resulting in my civil rights being violated. We are cretins because we want things changed?
Damn right. What are we supposed to say- "Oh, you don't like us and want to deny us rights? Ok, that's just your opinion! Cool!" **** that. Sorry, not gonna happen.
Damn right. What are we supposed to say- "Oh, you don't like us and want to deny us rights? Ok, that's just your opinion! Cool!" **** that. Sorry, not gonna happen.
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DavidLeblond
Mar 18, 08:50 PM
And if you look at the number of iPods sold compared to the number of ITMS songs sold, it is plainly obvious this statement is pure bull.
How does that matter? Last I heard, iPods didn't cost $.99. Plus Apple doesn't get $.99 per song, they get roughly $.34. iTMS makes Apple money, sure... but compared to the amount of money iPods make them there is no comparison.
I've said it over and over again, and so has plenty of others... iTMS exists to sell iPods.
How does that matter? Last I heard, iPods didn't cost $.99. Plus Apple doesn't get $.99 per song, they get roughly $.34. iTMS makes Apple money, sure... but compared to the amount of money iPods make them there is no comparison.
I've said it over and over again, and so has plenty of others... iTMS exists to sell iPods.
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samcraig
Mar 18, 09:22 AM
Please point that out in the contract, know it all.
Guess what, it isn't there.
Go look up the word Unlimited in the dictionary. Internalize and understand it. Come back here when you're done. Then come into a court room. Id like to sit back watch you (as I will eventually be watching AT&T) dance around the clear and concise definition of the word.
I've engaged in long, drawn out discussions with my legal pals about this very issue for several years, and they all agree it would completely impossible for AT&T to get out of court unscathed over this word "Unlimited"
Most of you people don't grasp the significance of the word in this case, which is not at all surprising given the crowd. (young and/or naive).
Most also think that because AT&T includes fine print in a contract, they can enforce it however they wish...which of course is a laughable fantasy to anyone who has sat through the first day of contract law.
Go look up the words: entitlement, spoiled, ignorance and unfounded :)
Guess what, it isn't there.
Go look up the word Unlimited in the dictionary. Internalize and understand it. Come back here when you're done. Then come into a court room. Id like to sit back watch you (as I will eventually be watching AT&T) dance around the clear and concise definition of the word.
I've engaged in long, drawn out discussions with my legal pals about this very issue for several years, and they all agree it would completely impossible for AT&T to get out of court unscathed over this word "Unlimited"
Most of you people don't grasp the significance of the word in this case, which is not at all surprising given the crowd. (young and/or naive).
Most also think that because AT&T includes fine print in a contract, they can enforce it however they wish...which of course is a laughable fantasy to anyone who has sat through the first day of contract law.
Go look up the words: entitlement, spoiled, ignorance and unfounded :)
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Mac'nCheese
Apr 24, 12:36 PM
If you strike a bias and confrontational tone, you get one in return. ;)
And people wonder why PRSI conversations revolve in endless circles, rehashing the same tired subject matter...
I don't think I did and that certainly is not what I got in return.
And people wonder why PRSI conversations revolve in endless circles, rehashing the same tired subject matter...
I don't think I did and that certainly is not what I got in return.
Eraserhead
Mar 13, 07:04 PM
'Renewables' are hardly without issue either. To make a decent amount of power you have to do it on a massive scale. What are your thoughts on the Chinese Three Gorges Dam?
And even given that China has had to build a hell of a lot of coal power stations.
And even given that China has had to build a hell of a lot of coal power stations.
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levitynyc
Apr 9, 04:46 AM
Apple doesn't care what you plug into the 30 pin adapter. Go here (http://www.itechnews.net/tag/iphone-controller/) to see all kinds of button-rich controllers for the iPhone, iPod Touch and iPad. Some plug into the connector and some operate the game over wifi, and one allows both methods. Before commenting, let Google be your friend. :)
Hmm.. then why are people always saying BUTTONS BUTTONS BUTTONS when complaining about gaming for the iphone/ipod touch?
Hmm.. then why are people always saying BUTTONS BUTTONS BUTTONS when complaining about gaming for the iphone/ipod touch?
Peterkro
Mar 13, 03:54 PM
Let me guess, that involves overturning governments and the acceptance of a pastoral lifestyle based on Anarcho-Marxism, right?
Anarcho-Marxism makes about as much sense as Anarcho-Capitalism,that is none.Who said anything about a pastoral lifestyle,you clearly have no idea how the so-called "free market" wastes energy resources.To take one example,what are the energy consequences of collecting milk in Scotland transporting it by road to Southampton packaging it and returning it to Scotland for sale,it's profitable but it's not sensible at all.Or how about flying apples from Australia to the U.K. (which has it's own apple industry) then flying them to South Africa to be waxed then back to the U.K. for sale,or people collecting waste materials in the U.K. only for them to be shipped to China and then back as the same f--ing waste (packaging). /rant.
Anarcho-Marxism makes about as much sense as Anarcho-Capitalism,that is none.Who said anything about a pastoral lifestyle,you clearly have no idea how the so-called "free market" wastes energy resources.To take one example,what are the energy consequences of collecting milk in Scotland transporting it by road to Southampton packaging it and returning it to Scotland for sale,it's profitable but it's not sensible at all.Or how about flying apples from Australia to the U.K. (which has it's own apple industry) then flying them to South Africa to be waxed then back to the U.K. for sale,or people collecting waste materials in the U.K. only for them to be shipped to China and then back as the same f--ing waste (packaging). /rant.
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slate1
Sep 20, 01:13 PM
My thoughts on the hard-drive are very similar to "adamflip's" and "chromos's" in that it's simply a way to get around the video streaming limitations of the 802.11g protocol.
If you've got a movie sitting on your iMac in one room and it can simply transfer the iTunes video file to the iTV in the living room then the iTV could begin playback in a fairly short period of time while it caches the remainder of the movie to the iTV HD during playback. Voila - streaming problem solved.
I'm presuming that all the functionality to stream music (i.e. - airport express like...) will be incorportaed into the device and that no data other than that which is cached to it will be stored on the hard-drive. In other words, you won't store movies, music, etc. on the iTV - you'd continue to do that via your desktop Mac and manage them in iTunes.
I, personally, could care less about any DVR functionality as my HD cable-box already provides me with this functionality.
What I would love to see is DVD playback so that this box could essentially replace my existing DVD player in my home theater system.
If you've got a movie sitting on your iMac in one room and it can simply transfer the iTunes video file to the iTV in the living room then the iTV could begin playback in a fairly short period of time while it caches the remainder of the movie to the iTV HD during playback. Voila - streaming problem solved.
I'm presuming that all the functionality to stream music (i.e. - airport express like...) will be incorportaed into the device and that no data other than that which is cached to it will be stored on the hard-drive. In other words, you won't store movies, music, etc. on the iTV - you'd continue to do that via your desktop Mac and manage them in iTunes.
I, personally, could care less about any DVR functionality as my HD cable-box already provides me with this functionality.
What I would love to see is DVD playback so that this box could essentially replace my existing DVD player in my home theater system.
iJohnHenry
Apr 26, 07:45 PM
It's quite possible they are "miraculous" recoveries. "Miraculous' as in exceedingly rare. Gabrielle Giffords survived a point-blank gunshot to the head. Is that the work of divine intervention? Or is it simply a matter that if you shot a number of people in the head, a very small fraction would survive? Likewise, among the millions of people with cancer, it shouldn't come as a surprise to find a small fraction that beat the odds to make a remarkable recovery. If Purell kills 99.99% of bacteria, does that make the .01% of survivors "miracles"?
Yes, Gabrielle was exceeding lucky, nothing more.
People die every day, without divine intervention either way.
The luck of the draw is very real. Believe!!!!
Yes, Gabrielle was exceeding lucky, nothing more.
People die every day, without divine intervention either way.
The luck of the draw is very real. Believe!!!!
Blackcat
Sep 20, 10:49 AM
No tv inputs on the iTV. No DVR capability. Please stop "wishing", "hoping", "suggesting."
Perhaps, a SECOND device could perform this, but it's not what the $300 no service fee device is for. It's for conveniently streaming content from the computer to a TV that can be watched from the couch. It fills the desire of many people, but not all. (Nor should it try to be everything to everyone. That's part of what makes it an Apple product, like it or not.)
But EyeHome, Neuston MC500 and lots of others already do this. My EyeHome happily squirts anything on my Macs on to my TV or Hifi and lets me browse the web too.
Why is iTV special?
Perhaps, a SECOND device could perform this, but it's not what the $300 no service fee device is for. It's for conveniently streaming content from the computer to a TV that can be watched from the couch. It fills the desire of many people, but not all. (Nor should it try to be everything to everyone. That's part of what makes it an Apple product, like it or not.)
But EyeHome, Neuston MC500 and lots of others already do this. My EyeHome happily squirts anything on my Macs on to my TV or Hifi and lets me browse the web too.
Why is iTV special?
RaceTripper
Mar 24, 06:54 PM
Aw, poor Vatican. Are your medieval feelings hurt?
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robotx21
Sep 20, 01:38 PM
I think iTV is a waste of time and money for apple. In essence, the mac mini can do ALL OF THAT, plus more, minus the ability to go out via HDMI. If apple just upgraded FRONT ROW to the quality of the iTV user interface, you have an iTV right there on the mac mini! Just add some more ports, including HDMI, cable in for DVR recording, a massive hard drive, and you have a MAC MEDIA CENTER PC! What about connecting to other machines to share content? YOU CAN ALREADY DO THAT!!! In iTunes you say "share my media on my network" and any computer with iTunes can read that information! Come on apple...this iTV thing is a WASTE. It's a dumb down mac mini...apple will make way more money selling mac mini's with TIGER/LEOPARD on it, so not only would you get a DVR, STREAMING MOVIES, DOWNLOADABLE MOVIES TO PLAY ON YOUR TV, but you get WEB TV!!! Or edit a MOVIE ON YOUR BIG ASS TV! Sorry for the rant...I just don't know why apple doesn't merge both technologies together in one system to compete with media center pc, and convert MORE mac sales.
alex_ant
Oct 11, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by Backtothemac
And I care why? It doesn't matter how fast you can surf on your PC. I can get around fast enough on my Mac. People who say Mac's are too slow are the same people that never take the time to watch a sunset or spend a day with their kid.
Or perhaps the people who say Macs are too slow are the ones who would like more time to watch a sunset or spend a day with their kid?
And I care why? It doesn't matter how fast you can surf on your PC. I can get around fast enough on my Mac. People who say Mac's are too slow are the same people that never take the time to watch a sunset or spend a day with their kid.
Or perhaps the people who say Macs are too slow are the ones who would like more time to watch a sunset or spend a day with their kid?
iJohnHenry
Mar 13, 06:33 PM
We will take your depleted uranium, and use it in our reactors. :D
But the U.S. is using this material to coat their artillery shells, the better to penetrate the Bad Guy's tanks and fortifications. :rolleyes:
But the U.S. is using this material to coat their artillery shells, the better to penetrate the Bad Guy's tanks and fortifications. :rolleyes:
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Benjamins
Apr 8, 11:17 PM
Velly Intelrsting. Did they start out making games from rocks?
they started off making card games.
they started off making card games.
Apple OC
Apr 24, 02:06 PM
Please demonstrate specific Islamic principles to this then.
I have never been to a Muslim country, but I am sure the results are amplified outside of North America ... I have worked with many Muslims here in Canada ... I have never met even one that was not completely controlling over their spouse or daughters.
20 years ago I had never heard of a Father murdering their Daughter because she was dressing "too western"
Thanks EdifyingG ... I was not going to look up all that ... pretty much sums things up
I have never been to a Muslim country, but I am sure the results are amplified outside of North America ... I have worked with many Muslims here in Canada ... I have never met even one that was not completely controlling over their spouse or daughters.
20 years ago I had never heard of a Father murdering their Daughter because she was dressing "too western"
Thanks EdifyingG ... I was not going to look up all that ... pretty much sums things up
backinblack875
Apr 8, 11:03 PM
I hope they poach someone that likes BUTTONS.
WHAT?! the best thing about the iphone IS TOUCH!!!! NO MORE BUTTONS!!!
WHAT?! the best thing about the iphone IS TOUCH!!!! NO MORE BUTTONS!!!
fpnc
Mar 18, 06:31 PM
But can a user be considered to be a party to that agreement if they have not used iTunes to access the store - does the purchasing process still involve an agreement approval stage using this software? Presumably not.
Why don't you try it and find out? :)
Why don't you try it and find out? :)
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